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One of my top clients experienced issues twice with their S185 skid steer loader equipped with AHC. Both incidents were traced back to dust contamination, although the entry point of the dust remains a mystery. To mitigate the issue, the client now keeps the windows closed and the AC running, effectively preventing further malfunctions.
When it comes to operator precision and control, the comparison to excavator operators is unavoidable. Transitioning from brands like Case and Mustang to Cat required some adjustment period, particularly in relaxing my forearms and avoiding the urge to apply excessive force. However, once accustomed to the new controls, it becomes difficult to go back. The trend of incorporating pilot controls or joysticks in skid steer loaders is anticipated to rise, following the path already taken by other types of heavy machinery.
Mastering the Takeuchi controls may take some time, similar to Bobcat's SJC controls. However, I have discovered that bucket control is superior to pedals, putting less strain on my knees. Although new pedal machines may initially be easier, they tend to become stiff over time. On the other hand, the bucket/loader arm control is excellent.
When it comes to precision work, the machine travel control falls short. The lack of feedback makes it challenging to maneuver close to structures without accidentally causing damage. Furthermore, the absence of feedback means any damage to tracks only becomes apparent once you exit the machine and inspect it. Nevertheless, with practice, as an owner operator, mastering the controls becomes easier. With over 300 hours of experience, I have improved my skills and found that once you get the hang of it, maintaining consistency is easier and less fatiguing. The controls require minimal effort and provide a smoother operation, reducing jerky movements.
The topic of feedback has been a recurring discussion on this forum. While I acknowledge the points being made, my focus has primarily been on loaders and excavators, where feedback is felt through the equipment itself. With over 4000 hours operating Cat skids, I view them simply as another loader and apply similar principles successfully. This approach may be attributed to my background starting on wheel loaders, where the concept of feedback was never missed.
When working alongside a wall with strict regulations against hitting it, it may seem unnecessary to have feedback in the controls. However, maintaining a safe distance with the bucket is crucial to avoid any mishaps. Years of experience operating dozers and maneuvering sand or gravel near walls have honed my ability to navigate without seeing the blade edges. When I demoed and purchased the 247 MTL, I utilized good judgment to ensure I never made contact with a concrete slab while fine grading. Transitioning from Hand/Foot controls on a Bobcat to full pilots on a CAT may seem daunting, but with practice, it becomes second nature. In the realm of working with medium to large excavators and other heavy machinery, operator skill and hand-eye coordination far outweigh the need for outdated feedback systems. Trusting in expertise and intuition leads to successful operations every time.
Bobcat Ron raises an important point about working next to walls and the importance of control feedback. It is crucial to maintain a safe distance from the wall to avoid any contact with the equipment. Years of experience operating dozers have taught us to rely on our hand-eye coordination and common sense to prevent any accidental damage.
Operating a compact track loader (CTL) is different from a dozer, and there are distinct advantages to using a machine for fine finishing work. The Bobcat SJC offers ease of use and reduced fatigue, but there may be some adjustment needed for the drive control when working on edges. Additionally, track machines may require warranty service if necessary.
Overall, my preference is to work inside my loader rather than outside with a landscape rake. Each operator may have their own reasons for choosing a machine, such as the ability to do fine finishing work. It is essential to be aware of what to expect from the Bobcat SJC and make the most of its features for efficient operation.
Operating a skid steer with joystick controls can be a bit reminiscent of older models like the D3, D4, and D5C, which had a hydraulic transmission that made them a bit tricky to maneuver smoothly. The bucket movement may not be a problem, but the travel can be challenging, as your arm's movements can inadvertently impact the control of the machine. Despite this, joystick controls are known for being user-friendly, especially for beginners. However, some users argue that turning with joystick controls may result in a loss of power to the tires or tracks.
As a proud worker who values efficiency, I don't like the idea of having to manually clean up after a job, whether it's removing debris from a wall or foundation. While some may argue that I lack a certain sense of finesse and coordination, I believe in getting the job done efficiently. Whether I'm operating a dozer or a skid steer, I'm not afraid to push up against obstacles if necessary, even though it may not always be the most graceful approach.
The initial Hystats were extremely problematic, but thankfully they have now implemented a new and improved lock system.
The Bobcat SJC has a noticeable delay in its response, which helps prevent jerky movements when operating the machine. However, it can be a challenge when working in tight spaces, as there is a slight delay between pushing on the stick and the machine actually moving. This delay can be particularly problematic when working near walls, as the machine may inadvertently hit the wall before coming to a stop. While the machine reacts more quickly to turns, it seems that there is intentionally built-in lag to ensure the user-friendly operation and prevent overaggressive use.
The delay time you referred to serves as drive line protection in both my Cat and yours. This feature ensures that all moving parts come to a complete stop before changing direction, a crucial safety measure. With practice, you'll learn when to precisely pull back without any issues.
One drawback of using pilot controls on heavy machinery is the lack of immediate feedback. Unlike traditional controls where the operator directly commands each side of the drive system, pilot controls can feel less intuitive. This can make it difficult to gauge the amount of effort being exerted by each track or set of tires while in operation. For those accustomed to conventional skidders, the transition to pilot controls may initially feel disorienting. However, despite the initial learning curve, many operators come to prefer the precision and finesse offered by pilot controls once they become comfortable with them. Ultimately, the decision between pilot controls and traditional controls may come down to personal preference and the specific demands of the job at hand.
I have only used joystick controls a few times on a Caterpillar skid steer. While I found it to be smooth for grading, I encountered difficulty shaking the dirt from the bucket when loading trucks with high sides. By the way, Bobcat Ron, I am curious to know which part of British Columbia you are from as I hail from Richmond.
The Cat skid steer's pilot controls enable the wheels/tracks to counter-rotate, allowing for tight turns on the spot. Back in 2001, I had the chance to try out pilot controls on a Bobcat, but they didn't offer the same smoothness and responsiveness as my Cat machine. However, it's worth noting that Bobcat may have made improvements to their pilot controls since then. Once you've gotten used to pilot controls, you'll find them to be much more responsive and less tiring than traditional long throw levers. After experiencing the benefits of pilot controls, you may never want to return to the conventional style.
In a testimonial, Steve Frazier praised the responsive and smooth Cat skid steer pilot controls, noting that they allow for precise maneuverability with the ability to counter rotate the wheels/tracks. Comparing his experience with a Bobcat's pilot controls in 2001, Frazier found the Cat controls to be superior in performance. He mentioned that once operators become accustomed to pilot controls, they will prefer them over the traditional style due to their increased responsiveness and reduced fatigue. Despite improvements that may have been made to Bobcat's controls since then, Frazier remains loyal to the Cat pilot controls.
During a temporary switch to a loaner S-250 skid steer with rowing sticks and an open cab, Frazier found himself appreciating the advanced capabilities of the Cat skid steer joysticks (SJC) in his own machine. The SJC allows for counter rotation, independent track movement, and overall smoother operation compared to older control styles. Frazier speculated that Cat's 2001 pilot controls may have provided a better user experience than Bobcat's E/H controls at the time, based on his own firsthand comparisons.
When operating heavy machinery like excavators, it is crucial to consider the type of controls you use. For instance, when loading from one side of the bucket or pushing a load while turning, hand/foot controls provide better power management for the tires/tracks compared to joysticks. Additionally, joystick controls are more prone to electronic malfunctions, as previously mentioned. This debate between hand/foot controls and joystick controls, similar to the ongoing JD vs Cat controls debate, is likely to remain a point of contention among equipment operators for a long time.
A user by the name of bobcatuser asked Bobcat Ron where he is from in British Columbia. Bobcatuser hails from Richmond and Bobcat Ron is from Abbotsford.
SiteSolutions noted that while their machine was in need of repair, they were provided with a well-worn S-250 loaner equipped with an open cab and rowing sticks. However, they didn't feel any regrets when their original machine was back in action. The SJC system on their machine allowed for versatile movements such as counter rotation, individual track movements, and various control options. Comparing the controls of the 2001 Cat to the Bobcat SJC, they found that the Cat controls, which were pilot operated, provided a better operational feel. Initially, the early Cat pilots faced issues with counter rotation, requiring a specific joystick movement sequence. However, this issue has since been resolved, allowing for smoother and quicker rotation with just a slight joystick movement.
I have mixed feelings about the Cat skid steer models 247B, 257B, and 277B. The joystick controls and lack of power to the tracks make maneuvering challenging. Unlike some other skid steers, these models require you to walk them forwards and backwards while turning, similar to operating a dozer. This limitation makes it difficult for the machines to spin quickly, which is why I have not been a big fan of Cat skid steers. Additionally, the undercarriage of these models has many moving parts, leading to issues with rocks getting stuck and causing damage to the rubber tracks. The small cab size on the Cats can also be restrictive.
The Takeuchi TL150 is a powerful machine known for its exceptional maneuverability and precise hand controls, making it perfect for finish grading projects. Its impressive performance capabilities make it a popular choice for those seeking a reliable and efficient workhorse in their construction equipment lineup.
I absolutely agree with dirtman that the Takeuchi excavator is known for its excellent maneuverability and impressive power. However, I have found that the controls on the 130 and 150 models I operated were a bit erratic, which is why my colleagues and I chose to go with the Komatsu CK35 for our work projects.
In response to dirthog28's comment, I have to agree with dirtman about the Takeuchi's maneuverability and power. However, in my experience operating the 130 and 150 models, I found the controls to be a bit unpredictable. This is why my workplace ultimately chose the Komatsu CK35, which we found to be more reliable. Those were the machines I received training on, and I personally did not find the controls to be as erratic as others have experienced. Perhaps the issue has been resolved in newer models like the 2006 version. It's hard to say for sure, but it's worth considering when making a decision on which machine to use.
dirtbag28 shared his experience with Cat skidsteers, mentioning issues with joystick controls and track power affecting maneuverability. He found that the 247B, 257B, and 277B models required manual guidance when turning, unlike some competitors. Additionally, the skidsteers' design led to rocks getting stuck in the undercarriage, causing tracks to wear quickly. These shortcomings, along with the small cab size, made him less of a fan of Cat skidsteers. For more insights, refer to Ron's post below. Thank you, Ron, for addressing the technical glitches with the links.
Bobcat Ron mentioned that the problem with the B2's has been fixed. I recently purchased a 247B2 and here is an unofficial review comparing it to my T190. Although the CAT has a lower rated operating capacity (ROC) than the T190, this comparison focuses on physical differences between the two machines. The CAT is taller and heavier but with less ground clearance, providing better visibility due to its design. The quick attach feature on the CAT is more protected compared to the Bobcat, with stronger bucket tilt pins and better cleanout capabilities. Loading it onto the trailer for work was smooth, and the undercarriage is more durable. Overall, the CAT impressed me with its robust design and efficient performance.
If your Cat skid steer or MTL doesn't counter-rotate smoothly without jerking the machine in the opposite direction, you may be dealing with subpar equipment. I've operated various Cat skid steers and MTLs over the years, and all of them have performed flawlessly. When I pushed the control stick to the left, the left tires would spin backwards while the front tires moved forward, and vice versa.
CascadeScaper mentioned that if the Caterpillar machinery does not counter-rotate smoothly without causing the machine to move forward or backward, then it may be considered as inferior quality equipment. Having experience with various Cat skid steers and MTL's over the years, they have found that when the stick is moved in a certain direction, it causes the tires to spin in the opposite direction. This issue may possibly be related to load sensor valve problems that affected certain machines. Quality control problems during the manufacturing process could be the root cause of these issues. Despite some minor quirks in the operation of the B series pilots, the overall performance is still manageable. Making adjustments, such as adding a shim under the pilot body seat, can make a significant difference in resolving issues like hesitation in certain movements. This adjustment was also noted by some ASV equipment users who share the same Rexroth pilot valve.
It's unusual that I haven't experienced any issues with various units I've been in. I've never come across any valving problems either. I do know that insufficient throttle can make counter-rotation difficult, but it's to be expected.
CascadeScaper observed that throwing the stick in a specific direction caused a unique reaction in the tires, with the left tires spinning backward and the front tires moving forward, creating an interesting effect. This behavior was likened to that of a cat.
Greetings, I am a new member here. I have started operating heavy machinery with hand/foot controls and I wouldn't switch back to anything else. I own a fleet consisting of 3 Cat 287B's, a Cat 268, a Takeuchi TL150, and a Gehl CTL60 (which is painted yellow like a Takeuchi). In my opinion, pilot controls offer more precision in navigating tight spaces, allowing me to grade confidently alongside any obstacle. While my CTL60 may be a bit more responsive, I believe it is due to its narrower tracks compared to the other machines. I had considered purchasing a Deere, but the hand/foot controls steered me away from that idea. On another note, I must commend this website - I stumbled upon it on a diesel site and I am excited to explore more content here.
Greetings and welcome to the forum, bonanno23! We noticed that you mentioned owning a Takeuchi TL150, as well as a Gehl CTL60. We're curious to know, why did you choose Gehl and Takeuchi specifically? Furthermore, how do you find the Caterpillar machines compared to your Takeuchi and Gehl equipment? Share your thoughts and experiences with us!
I chose the Takeuchi/Gehl machine over the Caterpillar (CAT) for several reasons. Firstly, the CAT's undercarriage is subpar and would cost nearly $20,000 to replace, while the Takeuchi's is only around $10,000. Additionally, the CAT's door design restricts exiting unless the boom is fully raised or lowered, unlike the Takeuchi's sliding door/window that allows for easy access at any boom position. I have decided to go with all Takeuchis for my equipment needs, along with one Gehl track loader and a Gehl 7810 tire machine for road work. While I do appreciate CAT equipment, the Takeuchi simply outshines it in my experience. This is all based on my personal opinion, but as someone who has used both, I feel confident in my decision.
Bonanno23 expressed gratitude and shared their decision to opt for a Takeuchi/Gehl machine over a Caterpillar (CAT) for several reasons. One main factor was the poor quality of CAT's undercarriage, which costs nearly $20,000 for a complete replacement at the dealership, while the Takeuchi alternative is priced at around $10,000. Additionally, they noted that the CAT model's door restricts exiting unless the boom is fully raised or lowered, unlike the Takeuchi with a sliding door/window that allows flexibility in exiting at any boom position.
The preference for Takeuchi extends to their choice of equipment for road work, including all Takeuchi machines and a Gehl track loader, along with a Gehl 7810 tire machine. While expressing love for CAT machines, the user emphasizes the superiority of Takeuchi based on their experience with both brands. This is a personal perspective, but as a user of both brands, they feel confident in making an informed choice. Thankful for the insights, they echo the sentiment of favoring the TL150 and appreciating the 3.9 Cummins engine in the Gehl 7810.
The Gehl 7810 is a powerful machine that stands out in the world of drainage work. Compared to the Cat 268, the Gehl offers a longer wheelbase, reducing bounce while turning and providing more power and reach. The Cat 268 struggles to make it over ten wheelers and trailers, and its cab size is lacking. Considering the benefits of the Gehl, it might be time to consider adding it to your equipment lineup. For landscaping businesses looking for a versatile excavator, the Cat 304 to 308 series is worth considering. These smaller models are perfect for handling tasks that larger machines may struggle with. Consider expanding your fleet with a smaller excavator that can be easily maneuvered by a 6-wheeler.
Greetings bonanno23, and welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums! Enjoy your time here and feel free to join in on discussions. Cheers!
If you are experiencing joystick issues with your Bobcat machinery, it may be difficult to find replacement parts for older models. Older machines often faced pump controller problems, which can be costly to repair. It is recommended to opt for the newer K series joystick machine, as they have addressed many of the previous issues and switched to a more cost-effective coil setup. Investing in a 3-year warranty for a joystick machine is advisable, as unforeseen breakdowns can occur even with new equipment.
When considering track machines like the T140, T180, and T190 models, be aware of potential speed sensor issues. The 250 and 300 series may experience drive motor problems after 1500-2000 hours of use. Wheel machines, on the other hand, have generally fewer reported issues.
These insights come from firsthand experience working for a Bobcat dealership. While expertise mainly pertains to Bobcat machinery, assistance with other brands like Caterpillar, Case, or John Deere can also be provided.
- 18-11-2024
- bobcatmechanic
Bobcats have electrical controls instead of hydraulic, which means that control issues are typically related to software rather than hydraulic problems. This varies depending on the model and year, but Bobcat has consistently favored electrical over hydraulic systems.
- 18-11-2024
- bobcatmechanic