It is evident that the decision to discontinue using them was well-founded.
Wondering about the proper tightness of tracks on your machinery? It's recommended to have a bit of play - about 1/2" to 3/4" - when pressing down on the top of the track. What are your thoughts on this adjustment?
That seems accurate; it sounds like you're on the right track.
As we continue to rigorously inspect and replace various undercarriage components, I suspect that the issue lies with the rapid changes in direction. This situation is quite frustrating. I may need to explore alternative sizing or brands for future purchases.
A 90-pound force should not result in more than 1 inch of sag halfway between the sprocket and front idler. Based on my observations, rubber track designs usually last around 1000 hours. While steel cable styles may not show as much tearing after 1000 hours, they are likely to become completely bald, similar to the T 300 I operated last week with sprocket teeth protruding through the track due to significant rubber wear. This particular track had 1100 hours of use.
- 05-09-2024
- WV earth mover
If you are a fan of Cat machines, you will appreciate the well-designed tracks on their new models. These tracks are not only visually appealing but also provide superior performance and durability. Visit a Cat dealership today to see these innovative features in action.
In his initial post, luckyJ discussed his use of a 257b series 2 machine, noting that it has a different sprocket drive compared to the series 3. This design similarity with the 257 and 257b machines suggests that upgrading to a newer model may not necessarily address the issues commonly seen with the 257. LuckyJ failed to mention whether both tracks or just one are experiencing ripping. In terms of track design, it might have been more beneficial for the 257 to adopt the track system of the terex pt70, given the similar weights of both machines. Comparing the 257 and 247 models, some may argue that the 247 is the superior machine, especially in terms of track system suitability. The 257 is notably heavier than the pt 60, which utilizes the same track system. The main differentiator between ASV/Terex and Caterpillar in the series 2 and 3 machines is the sprocket drive setup, while the remainder of the systems remain consistent.
When it comes to concrete work, having the right equipment is crucial. In my opinion, the 247 compact track loader is top-notch. It's fast and efficient, but it does have a downside - its fuel tank is too small. However, I appreciate the smooth ride thanks to its suspension system. Comparing it to the 257 compact track loader, I noticed that despite having the same engine size, the 257's heavier weight significantly slows it down. This difference is noticeable enough to lap the 257, much to the frustration of its operator.
The undercarriage was specifically designed for snow and is not durable in dirt, which is why Caterpillar now utilizes a completely different system. This new system is more effective in a variety of terrains, making it a more versatile option for heavy machinery. Additionally, the updated undercarriage design improves overall performance and longevity, reducing maintenance costs in the long run.
The cat continues to utilize the ASV attachment in conjunction with a durable steel material.
- 06-09-2024
- WV earth mover
I may have made a mistake, I thought they had switched it. My apologies for the confusion.
I apologize for veering off-topic, but as a new member of this forum, I have some inquiries that I can't seem to find answers to. Could someone please tell me the waiting period for new members before they can initiate a new discussion? Recently, I acquired a pre-owned ASV 4500 and I have specific queries regarding its track and undercarriage. I am eager to kick off discussions on various related topics with fellow knowledgeable enthusiasts.
When choosing rubber tracks, it's vital to understand the importance of maintaining the right tension, similar to a rubber band. Just like a rubber band, too much stretch can cause excessive stress on the tracks. It's crucial to minimize pressure on the tracks to ensure their longevity and efficiency for the specific job at hand. For tasks like clearing, tighter tension may be necessary to prevent track dislodging, while a looser tension is adequate for smoother surfaces like loading trucks or working on asphalt or concrete. It's essential to supervise operators to avoid reckless behavior that can lead to unnecessary wear and tear, ultimately costing you more in the long run.
Our experience with VTS tracks on a 2019 Mustang (100 hp) was less than satisfactory. One of the tracks broke after 500 hours, appearing to break from the middle out with rusty wire. While the rubber showed minimal wear, the company claimed we were too hard on them and used them on harsh material, despite being the ones who specified the machine's capabilities. It seemed like they were just trying to avoid responsibility. One skilled operator who works in good material and maintains proper track tension also experienced this issue. Have any others encountered similar problems with VTS tracks? Haddy.
Haddy mentioned that despite having VTS tracks installed on a Mustang 2109 with 100 horsepower, one of the tracks broke after 500 hours of use. The breakage seemed to originate from the middle, with rusty wires indicating potential corrosion issues. The supplier claimed the breakage was due to using the machine on harsh materials and exerting excessive horsepower, despite them specifying the machine. However, Haddy suspected they were not being entirely truthful. Another skilled operator using the machine in what seemed to be appropriate conditions also experienced track issues. Have you encountered similar problems? How does the longevity of mini-excavator tracks compare in your region, especially considering factors like moisture that can accelerate corrosion in wet climates like New Zealand?
Our mini-excavator typically lasts for over 1000 hours according to feedback. Despite the high cost, we were aiming for a minimum of 1000 hours of use. It's worth noting that New Zealand's weather is not much wetter than the Midwestern United States. Thanks to our free-draining soils, we are able to get back to work within 24 hours of rainfall.
Apologies for the error, but we were only able to use the track for 250 hours before it malfunctioned.
If you're in the market for a new machine, consider checking out the ASV 259 B3. I am currently renting one and have logged 500 hours on it in the past 4 months, with the tracks holding up exceptionally well. I have primarily used it for a grapple bucket, with around 400 hours in dirt and 100 hours in rocky conditions. In comparison, I also have 8 ASV 289c and 1 ASV 297c, with the 297c experiencing consistent undercarriage issues throughout the project. In my experience, the ASV undercarriage design performs best in snowy and muddy conditions.
How much rent have you paid for 500 hours? Is the rent charged on a monthly basis?
Rent our spacious 2-bedroom apartment for $2300 per month, offering 259 square feet and a maximum of 160 hours of usage per month. Upgrade to our larger 2-bedroom unit with 289 square feet for only $2700 per month.
How durable are the undercarriage and tracks of a 277 model?
In my opinion, a good way to ensure the proper alignment of track frames is to place a straight edge across the front and rear bottom edges (not rollers) and check for any cambering in or out. It is important to verify that the track frames are perfectly parallel to each other by crossing them in an "X" formation. Misaligned track frames can cause excessive stress on the track edges. Be sure to also check the idler trueness to the track frame for optimal performance.
When it comes to changing tracks, is there a quick method to make the process easier? I'm exhausted from struggling with this task. Any time-saving tips would be greatly appreciated. WS
There is a lot of buzz surrounding the 247 as potentially the top choice among MTL models, mainly due to its similar weight and horsepower to its ASV counterpart for which the undercarriage was originally designed. The potential tearing issues may stem from a combination of high tension and making overly sharp turns in challenging terrain. It is hard to pinpoint any other possible causes at this time.
Many customers have experienced issues with the design of CAT machinery, leading to unnecessary expenses for track replacements. Despite the widespread problem, CAT has not taken responsibility for the poor design. Researching the issue yourself will confirm these concerns. While CAT has introduced a new design, they have not acknowledged the previous flaws. This experience has led many to swear off purchasing from CAT in the future.
A critical review of CAT's design flaws has led to a wave of disappointed customers who feel let down by the lack of support from the company. While CAT has introduced a new design, they have failed to acknowledge the previous shortcomings. The incorporation of ASV technology into CAT machines has resulted in undercarriage issues that were not properly addressed. Despite initial enthusiasm for the machines' performance, problems arise with prolonged use in rough conditions, ultimately leading to costly repairs. This situation has strained relationships between CAT and its customers, with ASV also bearing some of the blame for the undercarriage issues. It appears that CAT rushed into the compact track loader market without adequately testing the compatibility of the ASV undercarriage with their skid steers. As a result, customers have had to bear the brunt of these oversights, with ownership being a key factor in determining responsibility for machine issues.
KSSS pointed out that the situation with CAT and ASV's collaboration is more intricate than it may seem. The merge of ASV's undercarriage with a skid steer resulted in the creation of the MTL, which led to numerous dissatisfied customers. ASV originally designed the undercarriage and carrier to work in harmony, with ASV machines being lighter and better balanced compared to CAT's models. Despite this, CAT seemed to prioritize profit over quality, resulting in issues such as bending and broken welds. The MTL was marketed as a superior CTL by CAT, although it lacked in performance and durability compared to ASV's original machines.
CAT's rush to enter the CTL market, dominated by Bobcat at the time, led to insufficient research and development on the compatibility of the ASV undercarriage with their skid steers. This, combined with overly aggressive marketing, resulted in numerous issues with the MTL that could largely be attributed back to the machine owners. Despite this, CAT failed to take responsibility and support loyal customers like KSSS, ultimately losing their trust and future business.
In conclusion, CAT's handling of the MTL situation tarnished ASV's reputation and resulted in financial losses for both companies. The rushed approach to product development and marketing ultimately backfired, highlighting the importance of thorough research and quality assurance in the manufacturing industry.
It finally happened - my 2005 model 257b skid steer experienced a major breakdown. Despite my best efforts to maintain it, both right rear idlers broke off due to dirt getting into the bearings. The plastic hubs failed, causing the wheel to wobble and tear the center out of the hub. With 508 hours of use mostly on my farm, I now face the daunting task of replacing parts. It seems the original components are somewhat cheap and weak, especially for heavy-duty use in general contracting. Are there any upgraded components available for this model before I resort to replacing with the original equipment? Your insights would be greatly appreciated. - Ken
Blair Industries, or a similar company, is known for producing high-quality aftermarket parts for various machines. These parts are often considered superior to OEM options.
Sure, I found the link for you. Check out Bair Products' website for more information: http://www.bairproducts.net/index.html.
As of now, my dealer is currently addressing the issue with my 257b. They have extensive experience selling ASV units, which use sealed bearings compared to the open bearings in my CAT. The dealer previously serviced an ASV unit with 3500 hours of usage, showing the effectiveness of their maintenance routine. They recommend injecting grease into the bearings annually to ensure longevity.
For my CAT, they suggest drilling the wheels to install grease nipples for easy maintenance. While over-greasing could potentially be a concern, the heavy-duty seal design should prevent any issues. With only 500 hours until the first teardown, it's worth trying different approaches to improve the undercarriage's lifespan.
During the maintenance, we will be replacing the rear Bair wheels, refreshing the bearings on the front wheels, and servicing some of the boggies. The dealer discovered a significant amount of dirt inside the hubs, emphasizing the importance of regularly checking for any play in the wheels despite meticulous care.
Overall, the undercarriage issues are unique to each application, highlighting the necessity of tailored maintenance routines.
To prevent ripped tracks, ensure operators steer clear of jagged rocks and culvert ends. Rough terrain can easily damage tracks, especially when driving at high speeds over large rocks. A simple twist at the wrong moment can cause a cut on the side wall, leading to tears. Regular maintenance by operators is essential to prolong the lifespan of tracks.
It seems like you're implying that we are a group of tough and experienced professionals, ctheddy.
It appears that you are facing challenging terrains and difficult situations. Having spent 20,000 hours operating various skid steers, I understand the importance of proper track maintenance. One wrong move can easily damage a tire or track. I share my experiences to help others avoid similar issues. It's important to remember that frequent use can take a toll on equipment, as I recently spent $1500 on new bogies, idlers, and bearings, as well as a set of tracks that are barely holding on. If pushing your equipment to its limits is necessary for your work, make sure to factor in maintenance costs. Sorry for any confusion.
Do you think a 100 horsepower machine may have excessive power for its own good, even if it operates efficiently and isn't used on hard materials? Is 100 hp too much for the tracks? Let's discuss the machine's horsepower and its suitability for various tasks.
In my observation, products nowadays are often designed to meet minimum standards rather than exceed them. There was a time when items were over-engineered for durability, but in today's economy, companies are focused on cost-cutting measures, which can compromise quality. While 100 horsepower may seem sufficient, it may not be the main factor at play in product longevity.
I recently purchased my own 257B3 and I have high hopes for its durability in the long run.
Recently, I've been researching Skid Steer options as I am in the market for a Tracked Skid Steer. Although I initially had a potential deal for a SR80 ASV model, it fell through, leading me to settle on a Cat 289C instead. Following a meeting with the Cat Sales Rep and Sales Manager, the Sales Manager shared some valuable advice on track maintenance. He suggested that if a tear begins to appear, it's beneficial to drill the end of the tear - similar to fixing a crack in steel before welding. This proactive approach makes perfect sense to me and is definitely worth trying. The Cat team is delivering the machine to a job site where I have a considerable amount of slate to move. I was initially worried about potential track damage in the challenging material, but the Cat team assured me that their tracks are durable enough for the task. While I don't plan to push the tracks to their limits intentionally, I will be putting them through a rigorous week of work. Stay tuned for updates, especially if there are any unforeseen issues.
To maintain optimal performance, it is important to keep the surface you are working on smooth and avoid rough terrain. Avoid running over rocks or unnecessarily spinning your tracks to ensure smooth operation. Remember, proper surface maintenance is essential for equipment longevity and efficiency.
Watglen mentioned that their dealer is currently addressing the issue with their ASV unit. The dealer has extensive experience with ASV units, particularly with the use of sealed bearings instead of open bearings like those found in CAT equipment. The dealer has successfully serviced a previous ASV unit, an RC50, and managed to get 3500 hours out of it, even though it is lighter than the 257b model.
Their maintenance routine involves pulling all the wheels once a year and injecting grease into the bearings using a grease needle. While time-consuming, this method has proven effective in prolonging the life of the bearings. For the open bearings in Watglen's unit, they plan to drill the wheels and add grease nipples to make greasing easier, taking care not to over-grease and potentially damage the seals.
The dealer is currently installing new bearings on the front wheels, bair wheels at the back, and some of the boggies due to significant dirt buildup in the hubs. Despite regular cleaning, dirt infiltration remains a concern, highlighting the importance of regularly checking for play in the wheels by loosening the tracks.
It has become clear that undercarriage issues are highly dependent on the specific application of the equipment. After spending approximately $5500 on repairs for the 257 model, the cost amounts to around $10 per machine hour, a substantial investment regardless of perspective.
It's common to get about 800 hours out of a track, but occasionally accidents happen and it needs to be replaced. Achieving 1000 hours out of a track would be ideal. I recently had to pick up and install 2 tracks onsite, even in muddy conditions.
One of the primary reasons for track failure is excessive tension. It is crucial to allow for some slack in the track to prevent issues caused by objects like sticks or rocks getting caught around the sprocket or cage. Remember to maintain proper tension to avoid potential track damage.
Our 287C equipment is frequently used for stream channel construction, navigating through mud, cobble, water, and even freezing temperatures. I have upgraded all composite idlers to Cat steel ones, and it's now time to consider replacing the tracks. Despite a few small tears, the original tracks have lasted 1500 hours. When replacing the tracks, I plan to also swap out all bogeys, sprocket bolts, and bushings. While I am searching for steel or aluminum bogeys, I have not yet found a supplier offering them as Cat does not currently offer steel bogeys. I am interested in finding an aftermarket company that carries these alternatives. Although the maintenance cost per hour may be higher for MTL compared to CTL, the smoother ride leading to increased speed and productivity makes it a worthwhile investment.
Oxbow shared that they use a 287C machine for stream channel construction, working in various conditions like mud, cobble, water, and freezing temperatures. They have replaced the composite idlers with steel components from Cat and are considering replacing the tracks soon due to some small tears after 1500 hours of use. They are hoping to find a supplier for steel or aluminum bogeys, as they believe this would improve the machine's performance. While they are aware that the MTL cost per hour might be higher than a CTL, they value the smoother ride and increased productivity that comes with faster speeds. If anyone knows of an aftermarket company offering steel or aluminum bogeys, please share the information. Visit this thread for more details: http://www.bairproducts.net/index.html
"Grateful for the support from Watglen!"
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